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Tema: Entrevista a Eben Upton sobre la raspberry pi 4

  1. #1

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    Entrevista a Eben Upton sobre la raspberry pi 4

    Hoy han publicado un articulo en Tom's Hardware sobre una entrevista que han hecho a Eben Upton (fundador y ceo de la fundacion raspberry) y he flipado bastante con las declaraciones:

    Lo primero es que no habrá raspberry pi 4 en 2019 porque no tienen posibilidades de hacerlo este año.
    Que le van a llamar raspberry pi 4 (y desbarra un poco sobre apple y microsoft con la nomenclatura de sus productos)
    Que va tener mas velocidad y mas capacidad (anda no me fastidies yo pensaba que la iban a hacer mas lenta y sin sd) y reconocen que el actual procesador ya no da mas de si.
    Que no va a ser de 40nmporque en 48nm ya no caben mas transistores y no se puede poner mas memoria no se puede con la arquitectura de 40 nm ¿¿?? (¿no será porque la CPU NO la direcciona?).
    Que no han decidido en que nodo irá, posiblemente a 28nm porque es posible, pero seguro que no irá a 7nm porque cree que no funcionará.
    Que costará 35$
    Que la Zero lleva un ciclo de desarrollo diferente pero que no cree que se pase del ARM 11 que lleva ahora al ARM Cortex A53 porque no cabría en la placa (espera que me troncho, los de la banana pi m2 zero y otras del estilo deben ser unos genios), ¿quiza porque podría perjudicar las ventas del modulo compute y de la 3?

    Y que no usara USB C para la carga porque lo ve problemático por meter 3 A (para lo que esta diseñado), no muy fiable y potencialmente peligroso, claro es mas fiable meterle 2,5 Amperios a un micro USB que es casi el limite de lo que necesita la pi actual (la nueva seguro que mas) y el limite de lo que aguanta un microusb y que mecanicamente es un truño, no comenta que en USB C con puedes meter mas voltaje y menos amperios con un sistema de carga rapida estandar como el PD (el que lleva la switch).

    Mi impresión estan estancados con el chip actual de Broadcom porque Broadcom no ha terminado de diseñar un chip que elimine todas las limitaciones del actual (memoria RAM, puertos, grafica, consumo y potencia) y mientras tanto van capeando el temporal, estan teniendo suerte porque no tienen un competidor que les toque mucho las narices pero ya se empiezan a ver modelos con el RK3399 a precios razonables y empiezan a tener soporte. Y en la entrevista se ve que evita dar una especificacion aproximada de lo que va a ser la pi 4 y creo que es porque no saben que les van a dar los de Broadcom con el nuevo SOC.
    O puede ser que es que este hombre viva en un mundo paralelo .

    O sea que a este ritmo ni en 2020 tampoco y en esa fecha la pi3 tendra ya casi cuatro años (salio en 2016)

    Pongo en spoiler la entrevista:
    Spoiler: Ver

    Release Date: Not Coming in 2019

    Pi fans who have been hoping for a new Pi 4 this year will be disappointed to learn that there is no way it's coming out earlier than 2020.

    "I don’t have a route to do something this year," he told us. "I think we kind of understand what featureset we want [and] what would be involved in getting that featureset. I don’t think we have a defined plan for turning that into a product yet."

    Yes, It Will be Named Raspberry Pi 4

    From Microsoft skipping straight from Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 to Apple jumping from the name iPad to iPad 2 and back to iPad again, the tech world is full of companies that try to obscure the true version numbers of their products. Raspberry Pi is not one of those companies. Upton confirmed that the next-gen Raspberry Pi will indeed be called the Raspberry Pi 4, not something silly like the Pi X or Pi Vista.

    "It would be insane not to call it that," he said.

    Improved Speed and Capacity

    The most obvious improvements are the ones you'll definitely see in the Raspberry Pi 4. "I think everyone’s wish list for the product looks the same: more processor, more RAM, faster network [and] faster non-multimedia I/O," Upton told us.

    At present, the Raspberry Pi is limited to a maximum of 1GB of RAM, a 1.4-GHz quad-core ARM Cortex-A53 CPU (on the 3A+ / B+) and a USB 2.0 bus. It almost goes without saying that most Pi fans would like to move up to 2 or 4GB of RAM and be able to attach peripherals that operate over at least USB 3.1 Gen 1, if not USB 3.1 Gen 2. And a faster processor is always a huge plus.

    In terms of networking, the best Pi offers now is dual-band 802.11ac and Bluetooth 4.2 support, which is pretty good, but the Ethernet has a maximum speed of 300 Mb/s, because of the USB 2 bus.

    No More 40nm

    One reason why designing a new Raspberry Pi will take a while: The organization will have to switch from its tried-and-true 40nm CPUs to a smaller process node in order to gain performance.

    "What you’ve seen us do with Pi is, with the three and half generations that we’ve done, add progressively larger ARM cores to the side of a basically-fixed 40nm system design," he said. "We could keep putting larger ARM cores on the side, but what you’d find is that we couldn’t afford the energy involved in toggling all the transistors that are in those cores so you’ve kind of reached a performance maximum for that process node."

    Upton also notes that the current 40nm architecture cannot address more than 1GB of RAM and is stuck with using old-style LPDDR2 memory.

    Next Pi Could Be 28nm, Won't Be 7nm

    Upton told us that he and his team haven't yet decided on a process node. He thinks that going down to 28nm is feasible, but shrinking all the way to 7nm probably won't work. He explained that it's difficult to have an affordable 7nm platform that will support 3.3-volt I/O like Raspberry Pi requires.

    "On smaller process geometries it gets harder (or at least more costly) to manufacture inputs that can survive having 3v3 applied to them, or outputs that can drive to 3v3," he explained.

    However, the final process node could be somewhere between 28 and 7nm.

    Pi Zero Has Its Own Dev Schedule

    The Pi Zero and Zero W might be the best deals in tech. These stick-sized Raspberry Pis have enough processing power to do real work, but they are much more compact and cheaper than the A or B series models. At Micro Center in the U.S., you can even get the Zero W, which has built-in 802.11n Wi-Fi, for just $5. However, the Pi Zero and Zero W have the same, single-core processor as the original Pi 1 that came out in 2012, and they sport just 512MB of RAM.

    Unfortunately, upgrading the Pi Zero is fairly complicated so a new version of it likely won't come out along with the Raspberry Pi 4. And, whenever the Pi Zero line does get an upgrade, it is unlikely to get a bump to the same 4x Cortex-A53 processor that's now on the Pi 3 series. The problem is that there's not enough space.

    "Because you’ve that form factor constraint . . . the RAM is popped on top of the processor," he said. "You have 168 balls in two rings around the outside. So you think about a 12x12 package with a mil chewed off each side and you have a 10 mm cavity and it’s not possible because of the way we’ve built the silicon for Pi 2 and Pi 3; we did it by stretching the die horizontally, putting larger ARM cores on the side. That means that you can’t fit that into a poppable cavity so we don’t have a route to do a high-ARM performance pop design."

    However, there will be Zero updates of some kind in the future. Upton noted that it is a very popular product and the company wants to find a way to upgrade it at some point.
    The Pi 4 Will Cost $35 U.S.

    Ever since it launched in 2012, the Raspberry Pi has aimed for and achieved a price of no more than $35. Through several years and generations, the top-of-the-line Pi has always had an MSRP of $35 U.S or a similar amount in pounds (currently £34 for the Pi 3B+). Upton says that the company should maintain this price for the Pi 4, despite some changes in the value of money over time.

    "Although it's $35, it's $35 deflating dollars," Upton noted. "I think $35 in 2012 is about $38 now. It’s really insidious because we don’t have very high inflation at the moment, but it’s kind of an insidious crunch that that $35 is going through every time."
    According to several online sources we checked, including usinflationcalculator.com, $35 of 2012 dollars is equal to somewhere between $38.20 and $38.96 in 2019 dollars.
    Size: No Larger Than Pi 3B+ or Smaller Than Zero

    One of the good things about Raspberry Pi in all of its form factors is that it's fairly compact and easy to fit into project boxes and other enclosures. Even though it should be more powerful, the Pi 4 shouldn't be physically larger than today's 3B+.

    "The original form factor is a credit card. That’s the original. Our anchor point is the size of a credit card . . . I can't imagine wanting to up, because we don't have any more interface I want to fit around the outside of the product," Upton said.
    On the other hand, the Raspberry Pi Trading Ltd. CEO doesn't see much room for a smaller board than the Pi Zero, because he doesn't want to lose any of its current group of ports. The Pi Zero and Zero W have a microSD card reader, two micro USB ports, mini HDMI out, a camera connector and 40 GPIO holes.
    "I can’t imagine us going down from Zero, because you have to throw away if you go around the edge of the board . . . you’d have to throw away something that we kind of care about quite badly in order to get there," he said. "You might be able to make Zero a little smaller by going back to the old 26-pin connector on the top rather than the 40-pin but that seems like that would throw away a lot of the compatibility with things we care about."

    USB Type-C? Maybe for the Power

    Most new phones and many new laptops and tablets now use USB Type-C for charging, because this standard carries a lot more electricity and data than the old micro B connector that supplies power to every model of Raspberry Pi. Upton told us that he is considering using Type-C for power, but isn't impressed with its durability and doesn't see it as necessary for other uses (data or video).
    He noted that, with regular Type-C (not USB PD), you could get 3 amps of power, a marginal improvement over the 2.5 amps the micro USB port on the Pi gets now. With that extra power, the Pi could distribute more power out to peripherals, but the designers would have to deal with extra heat from that extra electricity.

    However, Upton doesn't think the Type-C connector is rugged enough for many users.

    "There’s some awkward decisions in the pin choice on the [USB-C] connector," he said. "In the kind of fairly-rugged environment that people use Pi in, if the connector gets twisted or it gets dust in it, you can end up exposing the high-speed differential pairs on that connector to rather high voltages," he said.

    Overall, it sounds like Upton is happy with the current suite of ports on the Pi 3B / 3B+, which includes full-size HDMI-out, four full-size USB Type-A ports, Ethernet and micro USB charging.
    Zhorro

  2. Los siguientes 6 usuarios agradecen a zhorro este post:

    fbustamante (02/02/2019), josepzin (02/02/2019), rage (02/02/2019), romeroca (02/02/2019), Zoltar (03/02/2019), _-Caleb-_ (02/02/2019)

  3. #2

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    ¿Te noto un poquitin hater con el proyecto o es cosa mia? . Gracias por la información, tuve una Pi 2 hace tiempo y desde mi punto de vista es un producto extremadamente regulero (no digo malo por que está claro que sirve para algunas cositas muy concretas).

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    Y las Raspberys estas como son? Son como unos Arduinos con esteroides?
    Yo tuve Arduino y tengo por ahi un Leonardo y uno basico UNO...Los usos para controlar Leds y sensores.
    Que uso le dais vosotors a las Raspebrys?
    En mi libro “De cabo a rabo”, explico mi paso de militar a actor porno.

  5. #4

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    Cita Iniciado por fumaflow Ver mensaje
    Y las Raspberys estas como son? Son como unos Arduinos con esteroides?
    Yo tuve Arduino y tengo por ahi un Leonardo y uno basico UNO...Los usos para controlar Leds y sensores.
    Que uso le dais vosotors a las Raspebrys?
    Yo tengo un tomcat montado sobre ella, que me va un poco a pedales, y pijadas varias de detector de movimiento con una webcam y el motion. Supongo que para emus <32bits irá sobrada

  6. #5

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    Y las Raspberys estas como son? Son como unos Arduinos con esteroides?
    Yo tuve Arduino y tengo por ahi un Leonardo y uno basico UNO...Los usos para controlar Leds y sensores.
    Que uso le dais vosotors a las Raspebrys?
    Yo tengo una RasPi 1 B+ con KODI como mediacenter desde hace años y ningún problema.

    Un saludo.
    "Hay grandes ideas por descubrir, descubrimientos disponibles para aquellos que puedan eliminar una de las capas protectoras de la verdad". (Neil Armstrong).

  7. #6

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    Cita Iniciado por 3XCL4M4t10N Ver mensaje
    ¿Te noto un poquitin hater con el proyecto o es cosa mia? . Gracias por la información, tuve una Pi 2 hace tiempo y desde mi punto de vista es un producto extremadamente regulero (no digo malo por que está claro que sirve para algunas cositas muy concretas).
    No simplemente que me ha tocado las narices que salga a hacer una entrevista sobre la pi4 y no diga nada sobre la pi4 salvo generalidades y obviedades. Despues de la entrevista seguimos igual que antes tendremos una pi mas potente, con mas capacidad, a una arquitectura de 28m 20, 12 o 10 nm y sin usb c, o sea todo obviedades. Coñe es que los rumores son mucho mas detallados porque están tirando de un chip de Broadcom que ya tiene el videocore V, pero es solo dual core.
    Para lo que dijo mejor que no haga ninguna entrevista o diga que no quiere dar datos, asi por lo menos no genera hipe y acto seguido lo pincha.
    Zhorro

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    Que me estais contando? Que Kodi funciona en una raspberry? Y el addon Alfa va bien? Y el addon Sport365?
    Me refiero a los de www.canalnereo.com/canalnereo
    Y el porno va bien? En Leia no funciona el addon del porno, no consigo hacer funcionar ningun addon faperil, solo en Krypton.
    Parece que a la princesa no le va el cine de adultos pero a Superman si.
    En mi libro “De cabo a rabo”, explico mi paso de militar a actor porno.

  9. #8

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    Que me estais contando? Que Kodi funciona en una raspberry? Y el addon Alfa va bien? Y el addon Sport365?
    Me refiero a los de www.canalnereo.com/canalnereo
    Y el porno va bien? En Leia no funciona el addon del porno, no consigo hacer funcionar ningun addon faperil, solo en Krypton.
    Parece que a la princesa no le va el cine de adultos pero a Superman si.
    En RasPi 1 B+ con krypton, el Alfa corre bien, así que me imagino que en RasPis más modernas también.

    Un saludo.
    "Hay grandes ideas por descubrir, descubrimientos disponibles para aquellos que puedan eliminar una de las capas protectoras de la verdad". (Neil Armstrong).

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