M.A.M.E dejará de ser gratis?

[kiero]

Que hagan lo que les salga de los cojones. Ya estan emulados casi a la perfeccion la mayoria de juegos. Xdd

No te creas. Aún faltan una cantidad considerable de juegos por emular. En http://unmamed.mameworld.info existe una lista relativamente actualizada de recreativas aún no emuladas en el MAME. Y eso sin contar las que ahí no aparecen nombradas. Aunque entiendo que quieres decir que, al menos las recreativas que la mayoría solía jugar de pequeño, ya casi todas están emuladas. En cualquier caso tampoco es ese el problema que se trata aquí.

[dj syto]

No te creas. Aún faltan una cantidad considerable de juegos por emular. En http://unmamed.mameworld.info existe una lista relativamente actualizada de recreativas aún no emuladas en el MAME. Y eso sin contar las que ahí no aparecen nombradas. Aunque entiendo que quieres decir que, al menos las recreativas que la mayoría solía jugar de pequeño, ya casi todas están emuladas. En cualquier caso tampoco es ese el problema que se trata aquí.

No. No es el problema. Es una respuestaal mismo.

[3XCL4M4t10N]

a mi la pena que me daria de ser cierto es por el aspecto de conservacion historica.

[juanvvc]

No sé si habéis visto la aclaración de David Haywood, pero parece confirmar lo que os decía especulaba: lo que están planteando es pasar la licencia a BSD pura (ahora es una BSD modificada quitándole libertad) Así que lo que se está planteando es liberar MAME, y David Haywood no está de acuerdo con liberar el código. Lo que pasa es que ayer lo explicó de aquella manera.

Por supuesto cuando se libera el código se libera con todas las consecuencias. Como por ejemplo que terceras personas puedan sacar rendimiento económico del código. Yo como firme defensor del código libre tengo mi opinión bien clara: prefiero un MAME libre. Personalmente, solo colaboraría con el proyecto si MAME fuese libre y ahora no lo es.

[Ryo-99]

Ahora es cuando sale el Stallman de turno diciendo que para garantizar la libertad hay que prohibir la libertad de prohibirla.

[utopian]

No sé si habéis visto la aclaración de David Haywood, pero parece confirmar lo que os decía especulaba: lo que están planteando es pasar la licencia a BSD pura (ahora es una BSD modificada quitándole libertad) Así que lo que se está planteando es liberar MAME, y David Haywood no está de acuerdo con liberar el código. Lo que pasa es que ayer lo explicó de aquella manera.

Es que es mucho más fácil ganarte las simpatías del personal al grito de "¡¡que quieren convertir MAME en un proyecto de pago!!", que explicando que lo que realmente quieren hacer es cambiar la licencia para quitar la restricción de uso comercial, convirtiendo por fin el proyecto en uno de software libre. Dóndevaaparar

[eToiAqui]

Hasta que alguien se aproveche (caso muppen de android) y entonces todos dirán que porqué se hizo eso.

[GameMaster]

Lo que veo es que quieren ganar pelas con el porque aunque la licencia no permitiera su uso comercial todo el mundo lo hacia, incluidas empresas de renombre, creo que ya van tarde lo deberian haber hecho desde el principio y esto porque usar mame ya en si es estar siempre en lo ilegal, quitando la hipocresia de lado, todos sabemos que siempre se ha usado con roms ilegales pues poca gente tiene los originales que usa en el emu

[amkam]

(Me he leido el artículo diagonalmente) Si necesitan dinero, que abran un kickstarter, cumplirían objetivos con creces y pocas pegas se le podría poner (aunque las habría). Lo que no deberían hacer es liberar MAME y se pueda producir dinero de él legalmente. Es, creo, una obra sin ánimo de lucro, y más bien con un afán de conservación de un medio audiovisual (***** no sé como **** escribirlo sin resultar pedante).
Como ambas opciones me parece que ya las habrán requetepensado ya no sé a donde quieren llegar... imagino que es un globo sonda el post. En cualquier caso, siempre tienen la opción de donarlo a Apache, no ? :P

[bulbastre]

el messenyer se ara de pago!!!!

-----Actualizado-----

A mí me parece muy bien que lo liberen a lo hardcore. Lo que nunca he entendido es qué interés tiene alguien en NO liberar un código si tampoco va a ganar pasta con él? Me se escapa por completo.

[kiero]

El "messenyer" ya no existe ni de pago ni gratis.

[dj syto]

El "messenyer" ya no existe ni de pago ni gratis.

Vaya que no. Yo no he dejado de usarlo. Xdd

[GameMaster]

dinos como, yo me tuve que cambiar al pidgin para no tener que meter la mierda del skype

[kiero]

nuevos post sobre este tema de Haze:

"I´d like to clarify the point I made when I said MAME was dead in an earlier post.

In order for this license change to go ahead Micko and the other devs have to be 100% sure that NO code, or files have been attributed to the wrong people and placed under the wrong license.

A release with code where the license has been changed without knowledge, or of against the will of those involved is illegal, Micko can’t put out a build that is illegal, and people wanting to make commercial use of MAME certainly can’t use any build that contains even a scrap of questionable code thus defeating the entire point of this exercise in the first place.

If this is ignored, and a build containing files under the incorrect license is put out then MAME for all legal purposes may as well not exist.

We’re already seeing changes made to licenses beyond the scope of permission. For example, the galaxian.c driver contains a bunch of code I added for some Brazlian games, yet has been relicensed without my permission. The Sega System 16 driver contains all the code I added for a Korean multi-game system, and the license has again been changed without my permission. Kale also had to change Jaguar files back because he’s contributed them.

These are just two obvious cases I cared to look for (and one Kale noticed) in code Aaron supposedly knows and is claiming as his own. There are going to be hundreds of cases like this across the source as more and more people try to relicense files in this heavy-handed ‘change license now, maybe audit later’ manner. If obvious mistakes like that are being made what’s the chance of catching everything else in cases where nobody is looking to point them out? It is not up to me, Kale and others to point out these mistakes, it is up to Aaron etc. to make sure no mistakes are made in this process.

What this means is, in simple terms, is that Micko CAN’T be sure nothing has been changed incorrectly, or inappropriately.

That in turn means Micko CAN’T put out a release and be 100% sure what he has put out is now legal, because this relicensing has infected the main source, there are already files that have definitely been illegally relicensed.

What that means is MAME is dead, unless Mamedev try to ignore all the above by pretending they’ll never make an error, which I don’t honestly think is possible given the mistakes made already and deep histories some parts of the project have.

This isn’t just me trying to be a pain in the backside, I would be raising the exact same issue even if I had already approved my code for BSD (and if the majority go that way I’ll probably end up having to, not because I want to, or want my code to be sold, but as one final selfless act to help avoid destroying the project thanks to the legal mess this has created)

I’ve even stated that I’d be quite happy to license my drivers with an extra exemption for the stated use case, but I consider this likewise impossible to do legally.

The problem is however it doesn’t just apply to my code, it applies to anything anybody has contributed, so like I said, even if I had already approved I would still be saying what we’re doing is impossible, and can’t be done legally. The fact that it is being pushed ahead with so aggressively startles me. I do not want to be contributing to a project where there is a shroud of legal uncertainty, and there always will be after this change and I’m not sure anybody else would want to either if they understood the situation. I feel the OSS / FSF community also aren’t going to take it seriously as a result of this either which again defeats one of the very objectives stated for doing this.

Personally as I’ve repeatedly stated, I think the only legal way this can all be done is in a fresh project, taking no drivers from MAME, and not attempting to do mass, and error-prone relicensing of every file in the main MAME codebase. Any other way leads to legal uncertainty for the whole of the MAME project, creating either what is almost certainly an illegal project, or a project which can see no further releases until the history of every line of code is 100% known. To me that is a dead project.

I have a feeling Mamedev will simply push on and hope nobody notices / challenges anything, but that doesn’t actually make it fine.

The moaning and ranting on here is for the good of the project, and it doesn’t matter how bullish, aggressive, or enthusiastic some devs are about what’s happening here, these are valid concerns, only further validated by each step of action I’m seeing taken.

in summary.. this CAN’T happen, but it probably will anyway. The result is likely a MAME build that will forever be illegal, but apparently that only bothers me.

I would like to clarify that none of this means Mamedev will be selling MAME directly, it does mean other people will be able to, but that’s an aside and not the real issue here at all."

Sigue comentando:
"Here is another issue with what is happening in MAME and why it is dangerous to the project.

Over the last year or two it’s well documented that I did significant work on rewriting the drivers for many Data East, Video System, Seta and Kaneko games, of note merging down video implementations in many cases to give me a single ‘most bug free’ version of the code where before there were multiple implementations.

The first step of all this work was always to place together all the existing implementations of the video chips in a single file, then work out how each implementation differed, what was lacking from each one and eventually come up with one fully fleshed out, and hopefully bug free implementation to cover all games.

Let’s take Data East for example, that was one of the most extreme cases, there were roughly 20 implementations of the same video chips written ad different times by different people, often with no knowledge they were emulating the same thing.

Had there been multiple licenses in theses source files (for example 10 of them under BSD and 10 under the regular MAME license) then the first step of bringing all the code together into one file would have been *impossible*. I wouldn’t have been able to put all the code from 2 different license types in one file in order to continue work, and it wouldn’t be remotely clear what license the final piece of code should fall under. As a result I wouldn’t have been able to improve the driver as effectively, and wouldn’t have been able to fix as many bugs.

This type of scenario (finding code that should be merged into a single implementation) comes up fairly often in MAME / MESS, so this is actually a very realistic scenario if different authors have chosen different licenses and it has the potential to seriously hamper development efforts.

While I was never happy with Aaron’s license creep in core framework files at least it stood little chance of creating an issue like this one.

Essentially having multiple licenses, and allowing that within the project (by not rejecting the changed license) it created fragmentation, it creates pieces of code that can’t be mixed together within a single source file or reused (copy+pasted) within the same project where the licenses differ, and one of the primary driver development mechanisms in MAME is copy+pasting code from existing drivers as a base where you have similar, but not identical behavior. Again this will hinder, not help development.

This is just one of the drawbacks of what is going on that appears to be being shoveled under the carpet by the people promoting it."

[josepzin]

Kiero, no seas cabr0n y pon un resumen de ese tocho en inglés :-P